Hang on!
I get very frustrated with people who are stubborn. I stubbornly insist that people should be a certain way I guess. What really bothers me is when people do not (will not) do things that are good for them. This could be as simple as people not eating many things. I know more than a few people who won't eat any vegetables. That is just plain wrong. I know plenty of people who will not eat anything they have not already had. I mean come on do these people think they have tried all that is good to eat in the world?
I also get frustrated when people cannot see the merit of a book or movie that I really love. It could be a need for me to validate my own feelings but I really do think I need that validation and I am pretty "confident" in my ability to assess things like that.
I am not sure why I get so angry/frustrated/saddened at minor things like this - I just do. But that (along with some recent correspondences) got me thinking how frustrating it must be for "people of faith" who believe whole-heartedly in their own religious view, not to be able to convince someone of the right way to live and what to believe. I imagine it might feel like grabbing someone’s arm when they are falling off a cliff and knowing that you will eventually lose your grip and the person will fall. Do people who believe in divine salvation walk around all day and see people who are not "seeing the light" as merely zombies - shells of what they could be - vessels heading over that cliff without even knowing they could be "saved"?
Talk about frustration!
comments
It does get frustrating, especially when you inevitably start caring about people. But I don’t think it’s quite that dark. If we’re talking about Bible based faith, according to the Bible, God has the ability to read hearts, so we have the assurance that in the end God will make the right decision. Christians were commissioned to reach out and teach willing hearers, and were warned that it would be frustrating (2 Tim. 4:2-5). In the end I think it’s all about doing your best, but not passing any judgment on your own.
Posted by: on 08/21/03 at 11:39 AMFrustration indeed. Sorta like the frustration of waiting centuries to draft in your fantasy football league. *ahem*
:P
Posted by: on 08/21/03 at 11:43 AMOh Ben,
Haha - do you realize how hypocritical this post sounds? So what if people don't eat their veggies? What difference does it make? Why do you care if people don't agree with your movie reviews? In the end does it really matter?
My philosophy has always been, to each their own.
Do you realize how closely this relates to your debate about being childless? To some it's the greatest experience in their lives. Those individuals may think that choosing not to have kids is just "plain wrong". (Kind of like how you view not eating veggies.)
People need to make decisions for themselves as to what's good/bad for them. As people, we need to respect that.
Bet you never knew I read your site huh?
Posted by: on 08/21/03 at 12:55 PMAnnette,
I thought I made it very clear how hypocritical I was being. Was there room for interpretation? Oops. My point was that I know that none of that matters but that to someone "of faith" it would perhaps matter a great deal.
Why do people form groups? what determines who you hang out with? My guess would be that it is due to common interests. To each his own is a fine philosophy for abstractly looking at diversity, but it doesn't really pan out in interpersonal relationships in the real world.
And I know you responded just because you hate veggies. Eat your carrots!
Posted by: on 08/21/03 at 01:43 PMNot sure where you're going with this rant Ben . . .
You start off talking about your being bothered about stubborn people who are resolve in their beliefs and eventually transition to religious belief systems.
So are you saying you're bothered about not having a religious belief system of your own or that you aren't resolve in any "fixed" ways of doing or believing things?
I think what stikes me over and over again with your posts is that you go so far to make a point and stop about 92% of the way from a personal resolution. How stubborn of you!
:D
Posted by: on 08/21/03 at 03:14 PMStuart, Stuart, Stuart,
My site isn't for personal resolution of internal conflicts (all the time). I was simply stating an observation made about how frustrated I am at stupid things while also commenting on how frustrating it must be for someone with "important" concerns like the fate of someone's eternal soul (for people who believe in such things)
Stuart - I have always known you to be a creator but on my site it seems you all too readily don the role of critic. Sometimes it seem you are so excited to criticize you forget to review and analyze. Just another of my wacky observations.
Posted by: on 08/21/03 at 04:02 PMAstute observation. Makes me wonder what people sent you.
Looking at it the way you described, you'd expect any devout person to be in constant tears and sorrow. However, it doesn't take long for a practical grasp of reality to make it clear that the vast majority of people are going to believe differently. That's just the way it is, and it's no reason to pout. In fact, I would think that this would be cause for exploration, true? If you believe something strongly enough to think that you're right and others are wrong, whether you're talking God or veggies, then you'd better be willing to take an objective look and question why. You had better be able to defend your beliefs. There's so much lackadaisical acceptance of spoon feeding in the world that I personally find it interesting just to talk with someone who actually gives it thought, whether or not they agree with me. Of course, you already know I'm going to try and convince you. How can I do otherwise?
Posted by: on 08/21/03 at 08:28 PMAfter I read your response, I took a moment to re-read your post and my response as well as a few hours away from the computer for all of it to absorb in and I have some thoughts . . .
You are somewhat correct in your assement of my responses. There is no denying I am driven to find out the why behind the why. I wouldn't say I try to read more into your posts than what you intend to write and I comment when there is something I feel I don't understand about what you've written for (my) sake of clarity. Often times it comes off as a criticism when in fact I'm trying to figure out what the fuck you're saying.
In contrast, what I enjoy about reading Hiromi's site is that he often arrives at an observation or a complete thought or a thoughtful dilemma or question. What I find frustating to read in your posts is the fact that while they are personal in nature they never lead anywhere . . .
Again, there really is no criticism against your personal thoughts or absorbing your perspective. However, instead of your posts engaging thoughtful collaborative dialog, you never really seem to come to a point and it seems like your just bitching . . .
Stuart :D
Posted by: on 08/21/03 at 09:13 PMJust glanced back and noticed that my "astute observation" comment immediately followed Ben's "wacky observation" comment, and I wanted to clarify that I was replying to the main topic, if that wasn't obvious. Frustrated ranting or not, Ben's original statements still hold true. While I agree with you Stuart that the thoughts posted on this site are not always complete, I take that to mean the author is posting stuff that he's still thinking about. I guess I didn't realize there's an industry approved standard for personal post formulation.
Posted by: on 08/22/03 at 12:26 AMI don't like vegetables. I mean, they can be pretty sometimes, but I don't like to eat them so much. Did you know that an apple tree is a vegetable? I don't see you eating no apple trees. They are a good source of fiber.
I didn't read the other posts, because I have low tolerance for other people's ideas. But, I liked your final thoughts. It is more than frustrating, it's fairly unbearable (depending on what you believe happens to these zombies).
If you really believed in hell, you would be continually horrified. You'd both be in fear for yourself and also for everyone else that you could even began to care about. It's not at all like missing a movie or a book. It's a bit more like going mad and feeling incredible and unending pain, the absence of all joy, hope and love, something we can hardly imagine.
But, the frustration isn't that bad. The world is like an anesthetic. It numbs and distracts. What truth we can know is easily forgotten in day to day thoughts and worries. Our own lives are so lost in that, that other people's lives most of the time don't even register.
Still, it's lucky that it's not really up to us. Most of it, and everything important is God. In any frustration, he is your hope. That is what I believe.
JH
Posted by: on 08/28/03 at 12:55 PMI used to have a roommate who didn't like to eat vegetables. I found it rather odd considering the fact that she wanted to be a medical doctor.
Maybe it's just people being afraid of change. Particular things may not be "just plain wrong" as you put it, but perhaps they are afraid of looking at things in a different point of view. Many people would like to stay in their cozy confined views rather then going out on a limb to challenge their own notion of how the world works.
Posted by: on 09/03/03 at 08:05 PM